Calling player made to show cards at showdown

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draker
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:58 am

Calling player made to show cards at showdown

Post by draker »

Sorry if there is already a thread about this, couldn't find one. Using Poker Mavens 6.32 Gold - 64 Bit.

One of our players noticed that the order of showing cards at showdown wasn't what he expected. Here is the play from the flop, with 2 players in:

** Flop ** [9c 8h 7s]
donisfattoo checks
kathyh checks
** Turn ** [Kh]
donisfattoo checks
kathyh checks
** River ** [4s]
donisfattoo checks
kathyh bets 462
donisfattoo calls 462
** Pot Show Down ** [9c 8h 7s Kh 4s]
donisfattoo shows [4d Ah] (a Pair of Fours +AK9)
kathyh shows [Ks 3s] (a Pair of Kings +987)
kathyh wins Pot (1849) with a Pair

When players go to showdown, the player who made the last aggressive action (a bet or raise) is obligated to show their cards first. In this hand, the calling player (donisfattoo) was made to show first, even though another player made the bet (kathyh). This doesn't seem correct. In a casino, the calling player would have had the opportunity to muck without showing, since the better was ahead. Is this fixed in a later version of the software?
Kent Briggs
Site Admin
Posts: 5878
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:47 pm

Re: Calling player made to show cards at showdown

Post by Kent Briggs »

Everyone shows if it goes to a showdown. In a casino they allow the losers to muck but any player has the right to ask those cards to be turned over. A lot of online sites handle this by allowing the muck but showing the cards anyway in the replay feature. That just wastes everyone's time, not only for the replay button click but throwing up countdowns as the each losing hands decides to muck or show. Poker Mavens just shows everything and moves on to the next hand. This has been the case going all the way back to version 2.
draker
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:58 am

Re: Calling player made to show cards at showdown

Post by draker »

Thanks, Kent, looks like the software is working as intended. I double checked TDA rules (applying at least to tournaments) and it looks like you're right:
18: Asking to See a Hand
A: Players not still in possession of cards at showdown, or who have mucked their cards face down without tabling, lose any rights or privileges to ask to see any hand.
B: If there was a river bet, any caller has an inalienable right to have the last aggressor’s hand tabled on request (“the hand they paid to see”) provided the caller tabled or retains his or her cards. TDs discretion governs all other requests such as to see the hand of another caller, or if there was no river bet.
So the way I read this, the caller must see the last aggressor's hand, but other requests to see hands are up to the TD, no "right" to muck. Huh--I learned something today.
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